do you believe in evil?

Question

To the censors: evil is a political idea, therefore relates to anarchism, so fuck off.

The thing that fascinated me about stirnererism is that it completely changed my way of looking at the world. I didn't actually know it was possible to think like that. I realized the only thing that was evil in me at the time was there was this liberal judge in my head that liked to interrogate people and would never stop arguing with someone when he got sucked into it...and i also had a better understanding of the word association game that everyone plays against their will.

In the most existential answer, one could say "evil doesn't exist", BUT I STILL FUCKING BELIEVE IN IT. WHERE IS THAT MOTHERFUCKER.

oh evil evil, where is evil?

Is it under a rock? Is it under a bed? Is it sleeping inside my head? I know ! it's....

In all of my previous studies of evil people, i saw some similarities and connections , but the category "sociopath" is loved by perhaps the most evil people in the field of study. And i remember, the funniest subjectively shared  truth i could think of when talking to this primitivist i met 9 months ago was when i said "evil doesn't exist, it was invented by evil!", but then a week later he was laughing at me and i'v had lots and lots of fantasies about killing this person since then.

Comments

no, i don't.  i've never felt a benefit to me to conceive of "evil".

but like you said, you can get sucked into it. the imprint on my brain from nearly a thousand sundays in catholic church reciting "deliver us from evil" doesn't go away without effort...although all throughout those recitations i silently questioned to myself what the fuck it meant.

basically, saying you "don't believe" in something means the negation of a concept, label or judgment in abstract terms. so for me it mostly amounts to letting go, getting out of my head. paradoxically, by talking/writing about it, i use my head (in part) to do that.

edited: to add

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but it's so seductive! I like "evil music" (horror movie music, sun 0)))), death metal when im drunk), it gives me this feeling of existential awe just like all those documentaries ive watched about american corperations transferring their costs to the "third world". My favorite was "yes men"....that chemical company in bhopal, India (technically a "second world" country) poorly constructed something and caused an environmental disaster, an angry stock holder said something like "....i understand why someone would be mad about that, but come on!". He really should be the president of the anarcho-capitalists

BA, did you down vote this?? If so why??

wow, just getting a response, even a negative predictable one did make me feel good and "powerful" for a second, i stared at my question analyzing it in all its greatness....im so evil

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the thumbs down didn't come from me.

just watched one of the "yes men" movies two days ago. i enjoyed it.

i also like much of the stuff you mentioned. but you don't have to label it "evil" unless you want to. i'd rather describe a horror movie or an environmental disaster in terms of what i saw and heard, how i felt about it, what i think it means and so on. when i do that, it expands and contextualizes and deepens my experience of it...whereas calling it by a name (i.e. evil) tends to flatten and diminish and make what i observed or experienced seem more generic and distant.

not sure why you thought of my comment as "negative"....or perhaps i missed your sense of irony.   :)

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*shrugs and agrees*

probably my favorite super nintendo game is mega man x, where they represent "evil" as an army of machines, in a futuristic john zerzan world, as opposed to mario games which is definetly mobsters, where you go around collecting coins.....and in super mario role playing game lots of bosses enter the scene with "italian" music.....OMG SOCIALIZATION LOL HOW MANY COPS LIKE MARIO IN AN INK-BLOT TEST?! The 90's were a very strange decade, fuck the internet

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Evil?  Belief?

I don't know how to answer this on it's face; so i won't.

I do know that there are people in this world that i want to see die.  Not in some abstract, clinical state-sanctioned sense of the word 'death';  rather the personal, in-your-face, close enough to smell the piss dripping down their leg as i listen to the whimpers of their death-agony, sense of the word.
Sometimes, in the quiet of my head, i use the term 'evil';  sometimes i just admit they are too dangerous to turn my back on whilst blood flows in their veins.

My ancestors took individuals from their villages, out onto the moors;  bound them and slit their throats, then pushed their carcasses down into the bog - to be forever forgotten by kith and kin.  I don't know 'why' they felt these individuals had to be removed in such a permanent manner; but i can understand, in most personal terms, the scenarios in which i could follow the paths of my ancestors.

This is not an abstract anthrolopogical exercise.  When we don't have the State to do the killing and imprisoning for us, then what will we do?  Those terrible few individuals that are too dangerous to allow free reign, and which we cannot responsibly exile (to endanger our neighbors);  can we accept the burden of imprisoning any soul?, can we accept the burden of slitting his throat - be it for mercy or from our own fears?

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cb: "When we don't have the State to do the killing and imprisoning for us, then what will we do? "

i don't know with certainty what i would do tomorrow if faced by someone trying to harm me or other people in my presence. or what i would do afterwards if i couldn't prevent something horrific from happening. state or no state.

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..................................

me first!

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i added this question to my own question regarding 'absolutes,' since the term 'evil' (and its corollary 'good') are often spoken of in terms of absolutes.

 

Answer 1

I don't. I think "evil" is an abstraction; as you said, political, though I would argue more connected to moralism. Perhaps not, I've never actually read all of Stirner, and I am not big into explorations of evil. Boring.

What is evil is in the definition of whoever wields it, or, perhaps more properly, whoever wields control of the social/moral narrative. I think anarchists embracing evil as some sort of opposition to the social good is reactionary, as is trying to reframe society as evil and anarchy as good. I'd rather just reject both good and evil, or strip the social meanings down to nothing.

I don't know if this undercuts what I have written here, but I do talk about myself as being terrible, sometimes horrible. both are value-laden words, but to me there is some distinction. If someone calls me "evil" I want to punch them in the mouth (this ain't no D&D game!), if someone says I am "terrible," I smirk and agree.

Comments

haha, yeah, i also get that same "evil" feeling when i play epic video games, and an epic is the ultimate story of good and evil. I just don't know how to use the word "good" except with "positive" or "cool" or "productive", and they're all fucking loaded. "Beautiful" is close but it feels more complex.

in support of what you said, what was that famous quote where the guy calls evil boring (beaurocratic?)

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i usually try to look for words that describe rather than categorize....for instance, instead of saying i feel "good" or "positive", i might say i feel excited or happy or satisfied or ....or say i feel intensely nervous or confused or sad or like someone just punched me in the gut, instead of "bad". that sort of thing.

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yeah, here we are again to eprime. I realized that in american society to seem to have "confidence" requires a skillful use of "to be", often a very indirect use of that infinitive

Answer 2

"evil", like its corrollary "good", is rooted in moralism (and to me reeks of religiosity). as such, i find it meaningless outside of the abstraction of "objectivity" (which i largely reject as meaningless in my life).  

of course, every individual has their own ideas about what behavior is abhorrent, as they do about behavior that is highly desirable. if someone wants to call abhorrent behavior "evil", i have no problem with that - as long as they are not implying a universal/objective judgement.

i personally love using the term "deliciously evil".

"belief" is another term i have big issues with. belief (in this context) implies something along the lines of "faith". any time someone says "i believe in ...", my hackles get raised. i don't "believe in" anything. at least i think not.

so no, i do not believe in evil.

Comments

thanks for responding, i just saw a really horrible documentary about how commonsexual violence is in the porn industry and i hope my mood displays melancholy as opposed to the mood im in in this comment.

i wish i could get up and excersize or something but im all alone here with back problems and i just want to say thanks for being here to everyone, especially the people who manage this forum. it has givenme lots of pleasure and fear of the unknown and i love all of you. i feel glad i can still cry.

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right back at ya, rs6.

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i feel you, rs666. sometimes seeing the shit that happens in this world is unbearable, literally. i spent many years struggling with what that means to me, and the associated depression it can bring on.  still do, to a lesser extent.

the key for me was in making the choice to do my best to create and enjoy my own life, rather than spending so much of my time and energy trying to figure out how to change others (ie, make the world a better place?). i reduced the scope of my focus to that which i could reasonably control. then, i found that i could engage in projects or activities that interest me (and perhaps extend beyond my normal scope of focus), without being so attached to outcomes (and the impact of those outcomes on my well-being). in some very real way, i became much more grounded and aware of myself and my own desires.

i think living where/how i do, with very limited daily interaction with other humans, has been instrumental in that. being alone so much of the time really forces you to get to know yourself in ways that were impossible for me in my previous urban life. i wish everyone (that i care about) had that opportunity.

i wish you the best in figuring out how you will deal with the realities of modern human life. i (for one) am happy to share whatever i can that makes sense.