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psychedelic anarchy?

+1 vote
have people here had their the concepts of anarchy influenced -to a greater or lesser degree- by psychedelic experiences, or other unusual experience?

personally these experiences have helped guide a lot of my metaphysical ideas, which are the foundation of my ideas of anarchy and the individual. -will go into more detail if prompted-
asked Apr 16 by shinminmetroskyline (1,100 points)
syrphant: knowing f@ as i do, your hypothetical situation would not go down that way. i appreciate the effort that goes into considering hypotheses, and the vulnerability in putting them out there to strangers.

your hypothetical could totally happen with other people though, and it makes me wonder why you continue to pay for beers, if part of being f2f with anyone is about the negotiation, the determining what you're there for and how that meets what the other person is there for. maybe the other person doesn't like beer but is drinking with you because they think it's what you want? maybe they think you enjoy being the generous one and demonstrating that you have more than you need? that doesn't need to matter if you have determined that who pays for the beer is a really important indicator of how interested someone is in the conversation, but a) that can be arbitrary, and b) you determine how much you're giving (and how much you're determining the beer means--why not just stop drinking beer, if that's not the point of the interaction), and c) assuming other people agree with your assumptions is highly dangerous along exactly all these lines.

ok - i'm supposed to be doing other things. must stop procrastinating!

syrphant: "If I were to have a beer with Funky it might end badly: I would buy the first round, then Funky, rejecting the very concept of accounting, would feel nothing when I buy the second round, and the third. He'd say thanks, probably, but I'd say, "hey man, this isn't fair."

why would you keep buying rounds if it bothered you? 

and why does someone rejecting accounting mean they would feel nothing?

i'd say even calling the beer buying a "round" implies you've started accounting...why not just call it a beer.

i often bring homemade cannabis edibles to small gatherings of friends....i never feel like they "owe" me something in return....i get a lot of pleasure simply by seeing their enjoyment of the snacks...

concepts of "fairness" and "justice"  hold no appeal for me....but i sometimes still need to shake those concepts implanted in my brain from years of conditioning through hierarchical institutions and other authority figures in my life.

syrphant" "just you are the only people that are occasionally interested enough in my brain-excretions to make counter statements or recommend I go read something."

i appreciate that syrphant...i often feel the same way when writing my thoughts here....which i just realized i've done for four years now.....leading me to again feel grateful for this "place".... :)

@syrphant rejecting morality does not imply that you cannot judge other people, or their actions.  there being no objective answer to questions of 'best pizza' doesnt stop you from making judgements as to what kind of pizzas you like best.  same goes for people, you can still think someone is awesome or kinda sucky, you just wouldnt claim it to be an 'objective moral fact', simply your own judgement.

also a quick 'yes' to the things said by @funky, @dot, and 'specially @bornagain
this feels like a digression from the question, but oh well...

shinmin, your point there is one i find myself trying to make all too often when talking with moralists.

i make "judgements" all the time; they are subjective, they apply only to the context in which i am making that "judgement", there is absolutely no intended implication of that judgement being universally applicable or "objective", and ultimately it is nothing more than "i like that" or "i don't like that" (with varying levels of amplitude).

you said it more succinctly.
your binary question is worded weirdly to me. this part:

"have people here had their the concepts of anarchy influenced -to a greater or lesser degree- by psychedelic experiences, or other unusual experience?

i read that as you implying that if i boofed some psychedelic then it automatically had some sort of influence concerning anarchy and me. that probably wasn't your intent.

my use of psychedelics hasn't been an influence on me concerning anarchy. nor towards a higher sense of "enlightenment". it's kinda funny when some people who take acid and pull start preaching how acid caused them to be "deeply enlightened". but it gets old fast.

details about your experience and guide would be nice.

2 Answers

+3 votes

psychedelics had a huge influence on my life in general, around the same time i started reading @ lit. While there are a lot of components and a lot of insights i gained i would say chief among them was ego loss/death. really helped me view everything as equal heirs to the earth, gave me a renewed meaning to my own personal life to cut through my nihilism, and thus a more positive view of the fact that all the stars burn out eventually, the breaking down of barriers between me and other beings (the interconnectedness) helped me care more about the struggles of others and solidarity, maybe some other stuff i cant put my finger on, but i would say it less directly influenced my anarchy and more just overall as a person, and thus indirectly relates to my concept of anarchy.

a better illustration: now. after LSD and others, when i see two cops shoving someone in a car, i dont see two cops and a criminal, i see two people attacking and abusing another (and their wellbeings all depend on eachother (the interconnectedness))

edit:optimistic nihilism from realizing how unimportant i am

changed that to: gave me a renewed meaning to my own personal life to cut through my nihilism, and thus a more positive view of the fact that all the stars burn out eventually,

answered Apr 19 by DonnieDarko (870 points)
edited Apr 20 by DonnieDarko
wait, i don't understand. you say you gained ego death and insights from psychedelics. or did you mean you experienced ego death while on psychedelics? in ego death there is no you, yourself and u. nor any sense of self or awareness of your existence. to find meaning to your personal life during ego death is odd and doesn't make sense since there is no "i" or self to find meaning for yourself.. trying to find meaning for your personal self would imply you're aware, have a sense of self and your existence.  ego death isnt something you gain and it doesn't stick around for long time. ego death is hard to explain. im not sure what you meant by "gaining ego death"

what you're describing is more on par with stuff like lsd or ald-52 and a few other ones. to end up in ego death you'd likely have to take a lot.
didn't say "gained ego death" and didn't describe the experience so negating it is weird. those who have experienced it disagree that one cant experience it, as "you" aren't there, as you don't experience it as you, you experience it as everything, or everythingyou and that's part of the point.

obviously something profound will be analyzed by most people, even if not at the moment, and likely have some effect on them as a person.
and I did take alot
oh im sorry, the wording of the 2nd and 3rd sentence in your answer was confusing to me. so the 2nd sentence meant there are a lot of components and insights you gained and one of the components & insights you gained would be ego death? or would it be the insight alone or component alone? thanks for clarifying.

your follow up sentence reads like you were still meaning ego death rather than whatever it was you were actually trying to convey. hence my comment.  George is glad you clarified and now knows you weren't meaning ego death in the 3rd sentence of your answer, but something else.

i've experienced ego death a few times off a combo of dmt and other fun stuff and discussed it with a few people that have experienced it. it's fairly difficult to explain to others.

"those who have experienced it disagree that one cant experience it, as "you" aren't there, as you don't experience it as you, you experience it as everything, or everything you and that's part of the point."

George doesn't know what you're meaning by that sentence.
0 votes
Great question; excellent conversation topic.  I've never tried pscyhadelics. I have some pschological issues that produce wierd experiences for me without them; my "natural" trips are not always comfortable, so I never wanted to push my mind further in that direction. In high-school I hung out with kids who enjoyed acid; they actually asked for me to be there - sober - to help them trip. I just remember them mostly laying on the floor and me producing sounds and visual effects and deep thoughts. I felt no desire to join them on the floor; I kinda felt they were going to a lot of trouble to get where I tend to drift off to sometimes and go to trouble to get back from.  Now in my older age I'd like to experiment with LSD but I wouldn't even know how to go about finding a dealer.

I reckon anyone who thinks deep is going to end up anarchist. I reckon anyone with a particularly heightened empathy for others and particularly intense awareness of things like time and change are going to end up thinking deep.  If psychadelics can dissolve the man-made reality we take for granted and reveal the truer, greater complexity, I'm sure they'll lead many people to anarchist thought.
answered May 9 by Syrphant (600 points)

i wish i still had glasses as deeply rose-colored as yours, syrphant. and i wish i had some pure liquid to send you!

"I reckon anyone who thinks deep is going to end up anarchist. "

if only...

i also think that idea implies a sort of patronizing attitude shared by so many folks with strong ideas about how the world "should" be. as i mentioned above, my own psychedelic experiences opened doors in my mind that could never be closed again. yet all of my living experiences through 57+ years also play into the complex soup that is my mind, hopefully preventing me from allowing any one element of my experiences to color all of my "reality".

Look, if I sound patronizing maybe I'm trying to convince myself, 'cause in all honesty I'm the most confused, insecure member of this group. As you often remind me. Don't rub your moral.and intellectual superiority in my face; it's patronizing ;)
lol!

fuck superiority! i have no morals, and my intellect is constantly in question (primarily - though definitely not exclusively - by me).

however, i AM always right. (or is it left...?)
...