This is a term that has been used a lot by modern feminist movements, and I want to inquire what y'all think of the term. In my completely unqualified opinion, I would say there is one but at the same time there isn't. The nature of pornography and prostitution shows that there is such a thing, the fact that sex is very often viewed as dominance and submission, but at the same time, in order for a culture to exist it has to be somewhat openly shared. I can imagine there are very few conversations among men that sound like "ah man, raping that bitch last night was great! Have you raped anyone this week?". It would seem that even among the more misogynistic men, it would still be unsettling to admit that you raped someone....
"The nature of pornography and prostitution shows that there is such a thing"
interesting. how exactly do you see porn and prostitution (generally speaking) as evidence of "rape culture"?
also, as insanely pathetic and fucked up as it seems to me, i think the age of social media and living out loud (online) goes against your downplay of that sample misogynist conversation (which made me laugh out loud, btw, so i must be one). how many rapes have been streamed on social media in the past few years? i only know what i see in the news, since i don't have facebook/twitter/etc, but it seems that broadcasting one's dominating behavior has become not at all uncommon.
i have a rather similar response as dot to the term "rape culture". i find that the only people for whom that term is meaningful are identity politicians and subscribers to the ideology of victimization (victim/oppressor fetishists) - to the extent those are even separable.
people laugh for all kinds of reasons, not always because something is funny.separate point: "a clever rape joke"? ew. (edit: this refers to a line that has since been removed, which i think is unfortunate, both as a tendency--disappearing things that are criticized--and because maybe i should have been encouraged to be more clear about what is distasteful, as the person who brought up "humor being clean" as a problem. is it appropriate for me to cavil over whether a joke is clever and includes rape, vs a clever rape joke? so subjective, and again, why these conversations suck online.)sexworkers run a huge gamut, as F@ said, as do feminists, as do anarchists.while people who talk about rape culture tend to be creepy, that doesn't mean that rape culture doesn't exist. i myself would apply it more extensively, to talk about how the western world tends to view the planet and each other, as resources (for example). but that gets us back to jargon, among other things, and arguably off topic here.again, ultimately i don't like having this conversation with people online.
hi zz. nice to have a new voice remind us of the things we sometimes take for granted on this site.
as you read more on here, you'll get a better sense of what people mean when we talk about (for example) yes, listening to people and hearing what they have to say about their own lives, for sure, but also not necessarily accepting at face value their conclusions or assumptions about larger tendencies, as we don't accept our own conclusions or assumptions at face value all the time also.
i definitely hope you keep asking questions and checking what you're reading. this site has tons of threads with challenging topics and not being able to see each other's faces or know each others' histories makes it easy to not immediately understand that the hel someone is saying. (frequently topics are challenging and controversial because a single word--rape, racism, respect, etc--covers a ton of territory and can mean really different things both right now and historically. so it can take some time.)
Hey zz...one of the problems I have with the version of the "patriarchal system" that you described is that it's a little bit too simplistic and doesn't match up to the current realities. This is not to say that patriarchal ideas of male domination still don't prevail (as they certainly do), but these ideas have certainly changed in character since the 50's (atleast in the US), and the fact that women named it and called it out was a step on the way to changing cultural ideas of femininity and masculinity.
What I find to be unfortunately the case is that people will call out people for being sexist in situations when that's not what they were intending at all, ill give two examples that come to mind:
1. When I was 17, I had a death metal band called "leathal cock slap", and the local anarchist collective said the name was about raping women and accused us of being mysoginists. So, I was 17 years old, I was looking for a funny sounding band name that had violence in it (it was a death metal band), and the imagery in my mind was some dead guy with a penis indentation on his face. I asked people if they had ever heard the term "cock slap" refer to rape, and no one has ever told me that that was the case....
2. I was recently talking to someone on a park bench about scammers, hackers, internet security ect., and she said she was in school for cyber security and she would help me set up my computer. I said that "well, if you are gonna charge me money for it, then no" because i got the impression that that's what she was looking to do, charge me money for something totally unnecessary. Then she said "your just saying that because im a woman!", which irritated me.
I also feel like the way that feminist movements re-define "rape" to mean that anytime a girl is drunk they can't consent is actually sexist towards women, because they are being turned into a childish victim who can't make decisions for themselves when they're drunk ever. I'm aware that some of them mean to say that if someone who has sex with someone when they're incapacitated is raping them (and i more or less agree with that), but then why make protective blanket statements saying that "if your drunk you can't consent"? I would like all people to feel like they have responsibility and control over their own bodies
zz: as i've said already, i accept that the term "rape culture" expresses something real. that doesn't mean that every time someone uses that term, they're only using it for the purpose of clarifying a dynamic, or helping someone (depending on what one means by help, i guess). sometimes, people use it because it is likely to have an emotional impact on their listeners, an impact that the user-of-the-term wants to use for some reason.
the example i go to all the time is clarence thomas' use of the word "lynch" when he was being confronted by accusations of sexual harassment.
people don't have to be conscious of why they're using a phrase or word, for it to be manipulative on their part. and, as i have said repeatedly on this thread already, motivations can be (are always) mixed. so someone can be doing something i consider appropriate and something i consider manipulative at exactly the same time.
hope that clarified things.